Subject: Re: Extended Strategy ROLE CALL! Date: Fri, 30 Jan 98 16:41:59 CET From: Brick@wiwiss.fu-berlin.de (Daniel Brickwell) Newsgroups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.strategy Hi, John replied by mail, but I think his points are worth a public discussion: >>John Shuler, jshuler@mason2.gmu.edu, wrote an extended strategy article >>after playing against too many PT Jank decks which says... >>> >>>All right, let's line 'em up, and move 'em out! >>>Best Land: Wasteland >>>Runner-up: Tundra >> >>Tundra? How about Mishra, how about Mishra for Place 1 infact! >Wasteland weakens Mishra considerably. Maybe it's different on >you (your) side of the pond, but at least in the mid-atlantic >region of the U.S., there are a hell of a lot more Wastelands out >here than Mishras in the extended PTQs. We need to clarify one thing first, is something strong because most people use it, or because it is simply better on a solely normative basis, like Tinderwall is better than Wall of Wood? On a normative basis: In the old Type II Stripmine was better than Mishra. Is Wasteland better than Mishra? I don't know! I do know that a starting hand with 3-4 Mishras is almost a garantued win against many decks, while a starting hand of 3-4 Wastelands can be equally deadly against multicolored decks, it does pale considerably against mono- to two-colored decks. I would say that Mishra is of more use against a general number of given decks than Wasteland. i.e. 1) Mishra 2) Wasteland On a metagame basis: I do know that many deck types right now use Wastelands over Mishras simply because they run loads of double colored or multi colored weenies or splash colors. In those decks Wasteland is stronger than Mishra. However these decks are far from unbeatable and I can think of a lot of viable decks in which Mishras are much better than Wastelands. Still the majority is weenie crazy right now. i.e. 1) Wasteland 2) Mishra >> > <> >Best Artifact: Cursed Scroll >> >Runner-up: Scroll Rack >> >> Scroll Rack is strong, but what about Winter Orb? I see a lot of Prison >>decks doing well and I also think many more players worry about Winter >>Orb than Scroll Rack... >I don't see many prison decks doing well in or around my area. All >of one qualified anywhere near me. Worb is a great card, but the >above two are better in this environment. I have read about 80 percent of the dojo reports on L.A. Qualifiers, I have been to 5 Qualifiers and I have not seen that many Scroll Racks. I saw some and they were sometimes impressive combined with shuffle effects or Land Tax, but I can't imagine a deck with 4 Scroll Racks. Scroll Rack is a combo card and while there are now really, really strong combo decks. Combo decks in which you can include 4 of every combo card are generally stronger. In other words, ofcourse 2 Scroll Rack are good in a 4 Land Tax Deck, but I can't run 4 thus I can't depend on the combo to work every time. 4 Winter Orb in a 5CG or Prison Deck are strong because they are strong all by themselves. A Scroll Rack without shuffle effects or Land Tax is just a glorified Sylvan which costs mana and can't buy cards. >>>Best Enchantment: Land Tax >>>Runner-up: Bombardment combo cards >> Necro. >No way. Aura should have been first, but somehow I forgot >about it. :) These are the Top decks right now IMO: First Tier: 1) PT Jank (doesn't run Land Tax) 2) Fruity Pebbles (doesn't run Land Tax) 3) BB/r/g Scroll Weenie (doesn't run Land Tax) 4) Sligh (doesn't run Land Tax) 5) mono-black control Necro (runs Necro) 6) Legion Land Loss Mono-green (doesn't run Land Tax) 2nd Tier: 6) Tax/Scroll Rack Lands Edge Empyrial Armor Weenie (runs Land Tax) 7) Tongo varients 8) Mono-green Battleford/Norwegian Wood 9) White Weenie (runs Land Tax) 10) Black Weenie (runs Necro) 11) Prison (runs Scroll Rack and 0-3 Land Tax) 12) 5CG 3rd Tier: Who cares? I admit that theres a lot of Land Tax in the second tier but these decks lose to the first tier decks relatively often. You might be right about Aura though. I give it place... two ;) >> >Best Interrupt: Disrupt >> >Runner-up: Hydroblast >> >> Disrupt is the best newcomer perhaps, but Counterspell is still much >> more widely used and that with good reason... >Tithe and Hymn give disrupt the number one spot. Counterspell was >going to be the runner up, but hydroblast just barely edged it >out. On a normative basis I can't agree with you, on a metagame basis, well I still see a lot more decks using Counterspell than Disrupt. I know that Disrupting a Hymn is quite nice, but not beeing able to Disrupt the Aura which is going to ruin your day, well, is simply going to ruin your day. >> >> >Best Creature: Suq'Ata Firewalker >> >Runner-up: tie- Wildfire Emmissary & Frenetic >>> Efreet >> I live in fear of the 4 Wildfire Emissary 4 Suq'ata Firewalker, 4 >>Frenetic Efreet Decks, really I do! ;) >>Especially if I play with my 4 Ernham, 4 Jolrael Centaur, 4 Granger >>Guildmage, 4 River Boa 5CG .... Now thats metagaming... >> >Screw Frenetics, but you *do* live in fear of the 4 Suq'ata, >4 Wildfire decks, as they can wreck most everything out there >with a few bolts & quakes as backup. How many Quakes will you run in a 4 Firewalker deck? I do belive you can ruin PT Jank pretty good with such a deck but then Jank doesn't rule in Europe as it does in the states. I have to admit that it did pretty well in GP Madrid though, but Madrid was a relatively weak field from the decks I have seen. Wait for Lyon, GP Lyon is going to be a test of the new metagame since GPSF. Madrid was out of reach for any of the good european players except the french. Lyon is much more central. If PT Jank wins Lyon well then I am totally wrong and you shouldn't listen to me... Friendly Greetings Daniel Jamie sig. follows: Attended PT 1, because I could use a telephone and was crazy enough to buy a ticket to New York just to play magic... Attended PT 3, because of Joshua 5 my mono-black Necro deck. Attended PT Paris, because of my mono-black Dusk to Dawn Necro. Top 24 GP Amsterdam (Dusk to Dawn Necro) German National Finalist with my R/W Deck Gabriel (Necro was not allowed until 5th Ed.) Top 64 Worlds, playing Necro and Gabriel and losing 2:5 in Rochester Draft. Top 8 GP London, with 5CB Infernal Tribute deck with 3 Drains. Top 80 Chicago with mono-black Necro Qualified for L.A with mono-black Necro. I think I am slowly getting the hang of this Necro thing....