Subject: [Strat] Type II Burn permutations Date: Mon, 3 Nov 1997 16:07:33 -0500 From: Ken Lignelli > I agree- Furnace simply doesn't work that well against other >burn decks. However, I'm convinced of it's need against fast decks such >as Prosp/Bloom and against slower, more control oriented decks. Hmmm, see I think that Prosp/Bloom would be crippled by a Domain far more than a Furnace, especially since a good Prosp/Bloom might pack a charm or disenchant for facing another Prosp/Bloom. In testing, I can really deal 20 damage in 6-8 turns without a Furnace, so I didn't see the need for a 1 turn improvement in the average at the cost of getting out sped with no defenses. As far as slower permission goes, the Furnace is a huge target for counter/disenchant, although a Tome is as well. But I'd side them both out for those Boils or Caps or whatever is needed. >> 2 City of Brass + 4 Karplusan Forest >> 16 Mountain 21 Mountains >> 2 Ruby Medallions > > The Ruby Medallions are of great utility for the final turn where >you pile on the burn and kill your opponent, but otherwise I'm not sure >of their utility- at 2 mana, they're somewhat slow, and they don't help >you out of a mana screw. And the land complement varies mainly from >Ken's need to support green mana vs. a mono-red deck. Although I can >sympathize with the need for Tranquil Domain, the need for speed and >especially the Fireblast's need for mountains compells me to mono-red. I did some deep testing of that very complexity (needing 2 Mtns for 'blast) and found that 16 mountains was just enough to get 4 by turn 6 in most games (barring the statistically odd). The Medallions are still in the experimental stage (since I only have 2, they come up less frequently) and to be honest I am thinking of dropping them for Mind Stones. :) >> 2 Emessi Tome Furnace of Rath > > The Tome is a great card, but as I explained above, it's very >expensive for a speed deck. The Furnace, on the other hand, effectively >doubles the effectiveness of every card in your deck, and has no >continuing costs, although it does have the drawback that your opponent >can use it as well. And I've been playing with the Metagame with my deck. Whenever I play a Tome, I say "Well, maybe it'll help me draw the Furnaces..." even though I have no Furnaces. But my opponent doesn't know that, and so saves his Disenchants for the non-existant Furnaces that *must* be in my deck... :) (oops, wrong thread... :)) >> 4 Incinerate (same except 2 Hammers, no L. Blast) >> 4 Kindle >> 4 Thunderbolt >> 4 Lightning Blast >> 4 Fireblast >> 3 Hammers > > The lack of Lightning Blast in our test deck is almost exclusively >for mana concerns- 4 mana is a lot of mana to generate in a fast deck, and >aside from being an instant, the Blast isn't really all the efficient- it's >1 mana less than a comparable Fireball. I view an Instant spell as a control/counter control element. The ability to Lightning Blast at the END of their turn, then untap, gives me the Strong ability early in the game to get critical spells through, or else get that damage through to bring them low and into vulnerable range. >> 1 Builder's Bane (no equivalent) > > When building a deck designed to play inside of turn 5, I tend to >run on faith. Builder's Bane is not very good for fast removal (3 mana >for a single artifact), and it's not appreciably damaging. Considering >the number of truly brutal artifacts you'll face in the early game, I'm >not sure this is really worth a spot. Me neither! :) But for now it stays until I see what the field develops into. Thats how I do it. :) >> 4 Lightning Elemental Suq'ata Lancer >> 4 Ball Lightning Ball Lightning >> Mogg Fanatic >> Fireslinger > > The difference between these two creature complements is primarily >one of speed- when you're talking about 2-3 attacks, the R2 Lancer is >far better than the R3 Lightning Elemental- not only is it easier to cast, >but it is harder to remove, harder to block, and does comparable damage >in short time frames (given the free turn's worth of damage). Well, in 2 turns it does the same damage (say turns 3 and 4). But when you get to turn 5, if the Elemental is still around, you gain 2 damage. And, sure, you could drop a weenie in the way, assuming I don't Incinerate, Kindle, or Hammer it, but if you've got a medium fattie, like a Wilfie, the Elemental can take it out, which is a trade I'll gladly make. Then again, a medium fattie dies to those Lightning Blasts you don't have... :) > The reason for the Fanatics and the Fireslinger are similar- Makes it a bit sligh-like if you ask me... :) >> 2 Tranquil Domain (no equivalent) > This is another "I don't plan to let them live that long" >risk- by removing the Tranquil Domains, mana becomes much faster and >smoother, at a marginally increased risk of your opponent pulling >something in the early game. If your opponent is playing with >artifacts/enchantments that are truly noxious, the sideboard can >address that. My environment is currently Enchantment-heavy, what with ProspBloom and Stasis and Aluren/Recycle all the rage. That of course, is a local environement thing - maybe up near you I'd do it different. :) >> Sideboard: 4 Boil, 4 Disks, 2 Tranquil Domain, 1 Tranquility >> 2 Jester's Caps, 2 Builder's Bane > > My personal thought is that, as a second color, White goes >much better than green. While you don't have Tranquil Domain, you >do have the option of Serenity or Disenchant. You also have the >ability to pack Abeyance if desired. However, I firmly believe >that mono-red is fast enough to deal without a second color, >although artifact creatures/effects in the sideboard are not >uncalled for. You see, my biggest concern is getting out=sped. And ProspBloom and Root Stasis are just about all that can do that! Bringing in the Green from the SB, along with Disks, ensures that by turn 4, I've decimated the jump start that these two decks can generate. Then I can burn them at my leisure... :) Ken Lignelli .\\agic The Gathering Judge KenL@snet.net DCI #2090